Council of Elrond Rules Clarification 11
By Brian Wong



1. Take Shadow of Morder:
Environment.  The hazard limit for each company is increased by one for 
every card over one drawn by that company during its movement/hazard phase.  
Additionally, if Doors of Night is in play, during each    company's 
movement/hazard phase, the hazard player may draw one additional card for 
every card in excess of one drawn by his opponent.   Cannot be duplicated.

Q: SoM's out; its effect has been applied.  What if it's Twilighted, 
Mouthed, and re-played?  Will it:
(a) lose its effect as soon as it leaves play, and resume its effect when it 
returns?
(b) not lose its effect when it leaves play, and have a cumulative effect 
when it returns?
(c) not lose its effect when it leaves play, and not have a cumulative 
effect when it returns?

*** (b) is correct.  The player drawing more than one card is the condition 
and the increase in hazard limit as a result is the action.  The action has 
already been applied and will not go away.

When SOM comes back into play, the effects are reapplied.  This is a 
parallel ruling to the Gandalf the White Rider ruling that allows its effect 
to be applied immediately.

2. Nothing prevents one from (a) playing Spider of Morlat (to create some 
spider attacks in Mirkwood), (b) using Spider's "back to hand" ability, (c) 
re-playing SoM to re-create the Mirkwood attacks, except for maybe not 
having 3 hazard limit available.  Correct?

*** Correct.

3. I can't find anything that tells me I can't use Old Road in the org 
phase, or even that it results in the Haven or the remote site tapping.

*** CRF Site Phase/General: "Items, factions and allies must be played 
during the site phase."

*** CRF Site Phase/General: "The site taps upon successful play of the 
resource that would tap it."

4. Can I Bridge back to the site of origin?  E.g., move from Lorien to 
Rivendell, then back to Lorien?  Or is the site of origin still on the table 
when Bridge is played (at the "end of" movement/hazard phase), and thus 
unavailable for selection as a new destination?

*** This is legal since you can always move to one of your sites that is 
already in play.

5. Akhorahil is attacking.  Hoarmurath is used to add a strike, and 
Morgul-horse is used to bring him back in hand.  There /is/ time to re-play 
Hoarmurath and re-use him before     advancing past the "effects affecting 
attacks" part of the attack sequence, yes?  And even to use Uvatha to get 
one more Hoarmurath-ing?

*** All of this is ok.

6. Take Winds of Wrath: "Playable only if Doors of Night is in play.  
Replace the new site card of a moving company with a Coastal Sea in its site 
path with a card from your location deck that has a Coastal Sea in
its site path."

Q: Does the company's site PATH change, or is it comprised of the same 
regions & symbols it originally was?

*** The site path of the company stays the same but the destination site and 
the site's site path changes.

7. Someone's moving to Lond Galen.  Long Dark Reach is played, and the only 
creature revealed is a Nazgul.  There's an agent at Lond Galen.  Can that 
agent tap to make Nazgul playable so that Nazgul doesn't get LDR's -4 
prowess penalty?  My ruling was no, as that would be introducing a new 
effect (agent tapping) in the middle of a card's resolution.  He'd have to 
have gambled with the agent before LDR resolved (or was played) to avoid the 
penalty.  Right?

*** Right.

8. Let's suppose my moving company has a hazard limit of one (all hazards 
but one have been played) and my opponent plays a dragon. I respond _to the 
play of the dragon_ with Dragon's Hunger. He discards a hazard creature and 
the hazard limit is reduced by one (to zero). Since the haz limit is now 
zero, is the dragon creature discarded for no effect? Or must the playing of 
the dragon creature card resolve (and thus be unaffected by a reduced hazard 
limit) before I can play Dragon's Hunger?

*** CRF (Playing hazards): You check the hazard liimit at declaration and 
resolution.  At declaration there must be less hazards already declared than 
the hazard limit.  At resolution there must be no more hazards declared than 
the hazard limit.

The Rain-drake has not yet resolved.  The Dragon's Hunger is resolved first. 
  When we get back to the rest of the Rain-drake, there's no more hazard 
limit left and is thus cancelled.

[Thanks to Charles Bouldin for help in answering questions 9-14]

9. What happens with factions if all characters in the party are killed or 
eliminated?

>Having all of one's characters eliminated does not affect cards in your
>marshalling pile (e.g., not kill points, nor factions, nor stored items, 
>nor
>permanent events which are in your marshalling pile.)

10. I can play only one character/wizard/ringwraith per turn?

>Except for the Balrog, you may only bring in characters, wizards or 
>ringwraiths
>during the organization phase.  Furthermore, you are limited to a single
>character, wizard or ringwraith (or discard one character) during the
>organization phase.  Certain cards create an exception to this rule.

11. How cards effect applies in the game? For example, I have {The Moon is 
Dead} and {Doors of Night} in the game and then next turn play {Plague of 
Wights} and play some hazard, for example {Stirring Bones} - the 9/- undead 
creature with 1 strike. So, it'll be 11/- with 6 strikes or 11/- with 5 
strikes?

>The answer to your question is that, in general, the hazard player may 
>choose
>the order of application of effects.

*** If the order in which multiple hazard effects are applied affects the 
final result, the hazard player chooses the order.

12. Can I play in one turn two short-events req. different characters skills 
for the same character? For example, play {Lucky Strike} and {Concealment} 
for Scout/Warrior? And what about {spell}'s cards?

>Yes to the first question.  Only when facing an attack are you limited to 
>one in
>your ability to play skill specific cards affecting combat on a given 
>character.
>
>As for spells, those are not skills; therefore, no limit (unless there is 
>some
>ruling in the CRF15.)
>
13. What "stage" resource is mean? It is only for the Fallen Wizard or not?

>Stage resources represent the degree of divergence by a fallen wizard from 
>the
>Valar appointed path.  This is only relevant and applicable to Fallen 
>Wizards.

*** Charles describes "stage points" above.  Stage resources are the 
resource cards from MEWH that have a light green background.  These can only 
be used by fallen wizards.  Most, if not all of these give stage points.

14. On the tournament everybody has two decks? One for heroes and one for 
minions, or only one?

>It depends on what the tournament organizer has set up.  Generally for 
>2-deck
>general opponent format games, you have two resource/hazard/sideboard 
>decks:
>one for playing heroes and the other for playing minions.  You decide which 
>deck
>to use to play against fallen wizards and add the 10 card supplement to 
>your
>sideboard, plus replace as needed your wizard should your opponent declare 
>he or
>she is playing a wizard in your deck.

*** An additional note on this is that you must predetermine before the 
start of the tournament as to which of your two decks will be used against 
fallen wizards for the entire tournament.

15. Are allies targetable by A Malady Without Healing?  No corruption check, 
of course.  Memories are trying to convince me that allies only count as 
characters during attacks, but I'm resisting.

*** You're correct.  No Malady on allies.

16. When the end of game is automatically called due to both decks being 
exhausted twice or one deck being exhausted thrice, does the end of game 
begin at the end of the current turn, does the other player get one more 
turn, or does the other player get one more turn.  If they went second?

*** The game ends at the end of the current turn.

17. I never see Open to the Summons used by FWs to play agents; I assume 
that the errata was done to clarify that they may use it though.  Just 
making sure they can...  Oh yeah, and I am right in thinking that the -1 to 
mind does NOT allow you to play a 6 mind person with it (the mind checking 
is done before the effect applies)?

*** You are correct on both accounts.

18. What are the site tapping rules with regards to Hour of Need and Old 
Road?

*** Andrew Sitte was nice enough to find an old ruling by Van Norton on the 
subject.  Van often consulted with Ichabod on the hard rulings so we'll use 
this one for now as it doesn't seem to follow cram logic:  "In Van Norton's 
old digests, 581 and 582, he says that both require an untapped site and 
will tap the site at which they are played."

19. Nature's Revenge is on a Hidden Haven'd site.  Is the new auto attack 
cancelled by HH?

*** As I understand it, a wizard haven is pretty much like a haven for being 
a site type thus, when Nature's Revenge turns it into a Ruins and Lairs, it 
is no longer a wizard haven eventhough the Hidden Haven card isn't discarded 
yet.  If the new auto attack was cancelled, half of Nature's Revenge would 
be moot.  I'd say that hidden haven doesn't cancel the new auto created by 
Nature's Revenge.  I mean, was Isenguard able to cancel the ent attack?  
Uh... nope.

20. Same situation; this time, Dragon's Desolation is played, followed by a 
dragon.  Can Prowess of Age
cancel the HH's cancelling effect?

*** If it's still a wizard haven, then it's not a ruin's and lairs and thus, 
Dragon's Desolation couldn't be played in the first place.

21. A Chance Meeting in a FW deck can be used to play any non orc/troll 
characters because (editor's note: non-orc/troll) minions are treated as 
heros in FW decks (according to Van).  Does this mean that ONLY orc/troll 
characters may be played with We Have Come to Kill?  If not, who can?

*** MEWH insert: "A hero resource may not target an Orc or Troll character"  
There is no vice versa version of this so We Have come to kill can target 
hero characters in a FW deck.

22. I have been told that Great Secrets Buried There was errattaed to stay 
in play even if it doesn't find
an item, but I can't find this in the CRF.

*** I don't know about any errata but I played it this way for a while until 
someone told me that a host card needs needs to have something on it to stay 
in play.  I only find this with regards to capturing host cards but I 
suppose that this logic can be extended to Great Secrets Buried There to 
avoid cheezy plays and added confusion due to more exceptions.

23. Black Rain:
"Sage only: Playable on an untapped sage during the site phase at a Ruins & 
Lairs in a Wilderness. Opponent must reveal to you a non-Ringwraith, 
non-Wizard character from his hand if available; otherwise, he must reveal 
his entire hand. If a character is so revelaed, make a roll (draw a #). If 
the sage is a Ringwraith, modify the roll by -2. According to the result, 
you may play an item from your hand with the sage (tapping the sage): The 
One Ring (10, 11, 12), a Dwarven ring (8, 9, 10, 11, 12), or a Spirit ring 
(0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)."

Rule 1: In the MEWH Rules, Targeting Site and Resource Cards:
"A hero resource card may not target/affect a minion site card or a minion 
resource card.  A minion resource card may not target/affect a hero site 
card or a hero resource card."

Rule 2: In the MEWH Rules, Playing Resources at a Site:
"In order to play a non-Fallen-wizard resource that would normally tap a 
site, either the site and the resource to be played must both be hero cards 
or they must both be minion cards.  This applies to all factions, allies, 
and items; as well as other cards played during the site phase that tap the 
site."

Assume I'm playing FW:
Which rule will I follow: Rule 1 or Rule 2?

*** Rule 1.

24. If I roll a 10, 11, or 12 using Black Rain, can I play a hero One Ring 
instead of the minion version?

*** CRF: Black Rain "A Fallen-wizard may use this to play a hero ring item, 
but a Ringwraith player could not."

25. Saruman's Machinery:
"Saruman specific. Playable, if you are Saruman, on your protected Isengard 
or your protected The White Towers. One Technology item is playable at the 
site during your site phase whether the site is tapped or untapped. Discard 
when this site is discarded or returned to your location deck. Cannot be 
duplicated on a given site."

Does this mean I can play Blasting Fire, Liquid Fire, Vile Fumes and 
Mechanical Bow at my protected The White Towers or protected Isengard, even 
if these items are not normally playable at these sites, as long as the 
keyword "Technology" is found in these cards?

*** Yes.

26. Most FW specific stage resources contain this sentence: "Place this card 
on [FW] if he is in play."  Does this mean I can still play these stage 
resources even if my FW is not yet revealed and that these cards are 
automatically controlled by my FW once he is revealed?

*** Yes.

27. A Strident Spawn:
"Playable if you are Pallando or Saruman and have 6 or more stage points and 
a protected Wizardhaven. Each of your Half-orcs requires one less point of 
influence to control. During your organization phase, you may take one Half- 
orc character from your discard pile to your hand. You may play Half-orc 
characters at your Wizardhavens, and even if your Fallen-wizard is not 
there. Cannot be duplicated by a given player."

Does this mean I can play Half-orc characters even without Bad Company in 
play, or will I still need Bad Company?

*** Yes.

28. Legacy of Smiths:
"Playable if you have more than 6 stage points. Your non-ring items are each 
worth full marshalling points. Cannot be duplicated by a given player."

Do I still receive full MPs from my stored items if Legacy of Smiths is in 
play?

*** Yes, but only from your non-ring items.

29. MEWH Rules, Movement: "If you hero (or minion) version of a site is in 
play or in your discard pile, you may not use you minion (or hero) version 
of the same site."

Let's say I have two companies at different sites. Company 1 moves to the 
minion The White Towers and plays a resource that taps the site. Company 1 
stays at minion The White Towers to prevent it from being discarded. Can I 
move Company 2 to a Fallen-wizard to a FW version of that site?

*** No but you could do it in the reverse order.

30. I just need a clarification regarding bringing characters into play in 
the Standard Game. It says in the METW rulesbook, Standard Rules that: 
"Before you play your Wizard, you may use GI to bring a character into play 
at any haven or at his home site. After revealing your Wizard, you may use 
GI to bring a character into play only if your Wizard is at the site at 
which the character arrives (i.e., a Haven or the character's home site)."

In the METW Casual Companion, p. 4, it says that:
"... Once you Wizard is in play, characters can only be brought into play 
using GI at the same site where your Wizard is located. A character can be 
brought into play using DI at his home site or any Haven, even if your 
Wizard is in play at a different site."

Does this mean that a character can still be put into play using DI even if 
a Wizard is at another site? I just need a clarification of this from the 
NetReps 'cause some players here have this misconception in their games.

*** Yes.


Brian "No Cheeze" Wong




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