Council of Elrond Rules Clarification 12
By Brian Wong

[Question 1 was graciously answered originally by Josh Grace]

1.  a) My opponent killed Fallen Radagast.  I know that at that point, I have
to discard any Rad-specific perm events.  But how else does this affect the
game?   Do I still get the Rad-specific benefits?

>I believe that the answer is "No."  To quote Ichabod's favorite old
expression: If it isn't there, it isn't there. Meaning in this situation, if
there's no Radagast card in play to give you Radagast specific benefits... Then
you don't get them.

*** This is correct.

1. b)  Does a dead FW Rad gets full points for hero allies, and more points
than normal for certain types of factions. And, in later turns can I play more
Rad-specific cards?

>****Again, "No." When your FW dies, you're basically shut down. Each card is
worth only 1 MP unless you can get the generic modifiers into play (Great
Patron, Gatherer of Loyalties, etc.).

*** You have to discard all stage resources that are specific to your fallen
wizard when he leaves play but there is nothing stopping you from playing more
later because you are still that specific fallen wizard.

Of couse, cards that must be played on your fallen wizard can't be played
because he's dead.  Other fw-specific and non-fw-specific stage cards will
provide their benefits if they are playable and and satisfy the requirements of
the card.

2. Going by the text of Fireworks, it appears to be playable at Wellinghall. 
Looking at my usual source online,
, I see an exception for Wellinghall.  I checked in the CRF 15 and could not
find anything to do with Fireworks.

*** There is no errata concerning Wellinghal or any specific site on the
Fireworks card.

3. If Prowess of Age is played on my Roused dragon as the last card in a
company's hazard limit, and Dragon's Hunger is played to cancel the attack, can
the attack be cancelled through hazard limit reduction, or has Prowess of Age
already fully resolved by the time there is an attack to respond to?

*** The latter.

4. OK, the text on Healing Herbs is as follows: The bearer can tap and discard
this item to heal a character in his company, changing the character's status
from wounded to well and untapped.  Alternatively, the bearer can tap and
discard this item to untap a character that is not wounded.

Suppose I use this at Old Forest when I have two wounded characters, a tapped
character, and the untapped bearer. Does everybody (including the bearer)
become untapped? Since the untapping of the character is part of the healing
effect, I would argue that it works for everybody, including the bearer.

*** Healing effects are separate from untapping effects and only wounded
characters would benefit from healing herbs used at Old Forest.

5. Suppose I'm at the Old Forest when I have two tapped characters and the
untapped bearer. I tap the bearer and discard Healing Herbs for its alternative
use (to untap somebody). How many characters can become untapped? (Is the
untapping effect of Healing Herbs a healing effect? I would say no, but I would
like a response.)

*** As above, no.  Old Forest's healing effect only affects characters healing
from a wounded status.

[Thanks to Nigel Buckle for his help on answering questions 6 & 7]

6. If I play Lure of Power onguard, do I reveal it b4 the influence attempt is
made or after the influence attempt (or is it my option)?  The reason I ask is
that if the latter holds true my opponent could use up one or more
influence/corruption helpers on the influence attempt, not knowing that LoP
will be revealed.

>According to the CRF (15)
>An on-guard card may be revealed when the company plays a resource that
potentially taps the site. The card must affect the company or a character in
the company that site phase.
>LoP states: "The next non-Hobbit character to make a successful influence
attempt (e.g., against a faction, an opponent's character, etc.) must
immediately make a corruption check modified by -4.  Discard this card after
this corruption check."
>You reveal LoP when your opponent plays the faction BEFORE the influence
attempt, if the attempt succeeds your opponent makes the roll for LoP.
Afterwards would be an illegal play, as the card (LoP) would NOT affect the
company in that site phase.
>The CRF also states: A revealed on-guard card retroactively takes effect as
though it were both declared and resolved immediately prior to the chain of
effects during which it was revealed.
>But revealing it after a influence roll isn't in a chain of effects - the
chain is: reveal a faction - make an influence attempt, tap the site.
*** Nigel's answer is impeccable.
7.  Clear Skies states that it is only playable if Gates is in play.  I know
Doors discards all resource environments if Doors successfully resolves but
what if opponent twilights Gates?  Clear Skies was played when Gates was in
play.  I realize most opponents would target the CS w/twilight but maybe not if
multiple Gates based events were in play.
>Clear Skies needs GoM to be PLAYED but not to have an effect, twilight GoM
Clear Skies remains in play and has a continued effect.

*** It wasn't made clear as to whether timing was involved with this question
but I'll cover that here anyways.

Nigel's answer above is correct but if GoM is twilighted in response to the
play of Clear Skies, twilight would resolve first causing the discard of GoM
and thus the fizzle of Clear Skies because GoM is no longer in play to satisfy
the play requirements of Clear Skies.

8. As a freakish side note to the question about when you can reveal Lure of
Power,  can't you "force" the influencing player to play all the
influence/corruption cards he would normally play by waiting to reveal LoP
until he is ready to roll the dice? (You say, "Tell me when you're ready to
roll the dice," and then flip LoP when he's ready. Of course, he could hold a
modifier or two in his hand, but he can't play them to help the faction attempt
once he's committed to rolling the dice, can he?)

This mirrors a weird situation with influence attempts against opponent's
resources and the play of Wizard's Laughter. Suppose my opponent wants to make
an influence attempt against one of my reasouces. I can wait to play Wizard's
Laughter until my opponent has played (and wasted) all his influence boosters
and he's ready to roll the dice, right? Even if he suspects I have a Wizard's
Laughter, there is no way for him to force me to play it before he throws down
all his influence modifiers, is there?

*** You can reveal your Lure of Power or Wizard's Laughter in response to the
dice roll declaration.  Annotation 2: "A corruption check or any dice-rolling
action can be targetted in the chain of effects during which it was declared." 
This is starting a chain of effect so your opponent can play his modifiers in
response.  Basically there's no way of stopping your opponent from playing his
modifiers if you intend to reveal your Lure of Power or play your Wizard's

9.  So You've Come Back

The card states it can't be duplicated on a given company.  Originally, the
opponent has two separate companies and SYCB is played on a character in each
of the two companies (a legal play).  The two companies meet at a haven and
join.  Now there are two characters in one company with SYCB.  What happens? 
Is it:

a.  One must be discarded, and the player controlling the characters decides
which one is discarded
b.  One must be discarded, and the hazard player decides which one
c.  Neither is discarded, the effects simply aren't duplicated on the company

I lean toward (c) because they were both legal when played and there's nothing
stating that they should be discarded.  [The player affected insisted on (a).]

*** The answer is b.

10.  To remove SYCB, the card says that the character must be in his own
company in an org phase at a darkhaven.  Can multiple characters with SYCB be
at the same darkhaven at the same time and be declared to be in separate
companies in the org phase to fulfill the requirements and remove it?  I think
it's possible because companies don't automatically join together at havens,
unlike other sites.  Another player in our group thinks this is "too tricky"
and can't be what is meant.

*** This is legal but take note of the following CRF excerpt under "Organizing

- "Company composition changes that you choose to make, including bringing a
character into play, must all be done at the same time during the organization
phase."  Also, only one of the companies may stay and the rest must move
somewhere else.

11.  A 2-mind character, now on his own in a 1 character company, has SYCB on
him.  The card says it increases the mind by 1.  When this character moves, can
both players now draw cards since the character's mind is no longer less than 3?

*** SYCB states, "The mind of each OTHER non-follower... in his company
increases by one."  This means means that the lone 2-mind character stays at 2
mind and your question fizzles without effect. ;)

12.  Can auto-attack enhancers be played on guard and legally revealed?

*** Yes.

13. Two separate companies are moving to the same site.  I play an on guard
card for each company.  At the end of the movement/hazard phase, the two
companies become one.  So,

(a) Does this new, single company face both on guard cards if it enters the
(b) Or does the hazard player choose which one to reveal?
(c)  Or does something else happen? (Like it turning out to be illegal to play
more than one on guard card on a site?)

*** Two on guard cards played on the site is legal in the above situation and
you, as the hazard player, may reveal one, both, or none of the on guard cards
if the conditions exist for their legal revealing as on guard cards.

14. Does a dead wiz count against character points at the Free Council, or is
it just -5 after all is tallied?

*** The -5 penalty from a dead wizard is applied immediately and is always
after all marshalling points are tallied.  They do not count against character

15. Does Bane of the Ithil Stone stop Pallando's ability to see the top card of
a player's deck?

*** Pallando's ability is outside the normal sequence of play as outlined in
the rules because the rules don't normally have opponents looking at the top
card of your discard pile.  Bane of the Ithil-Stone will stop Pallando's
ability to look at the top card of the opponent's discard pile.

16. Regarding Dwarves are Upon You, can this be played on a company with only a
single dwarf?  Or does there have to be more than one dwarf, since it says
"containing dwarves"?

*** Yes, this can be played on a company with only a single dwarf.

17. Basically, the question is whether or not you can reveal a Lure card on
guard after the influencer/item getter has been chosen.  For example, revealing
a Lure of Expedience when an item has just been played, or revealing a Lure of
Anything in response to the declaration of an influence attempt after the
person to influence has been chosen.

*** Yes.  The CRF states that such an on guard card when revealed retroactively
takes effect as though it were both declared and resovled immediately  prior to
the chain of effects during which it was revealed.  Also, when the item or
faction is played, the character receiving the item or making the influence
attempt must be declared at the same time.

Brian "No Cheeze" Wong